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View Full Version : Major change coming .. details included .. READ and RESPOND!


Zeras
03-22-2007, 01:25 AM
This is a very long and detailed explanation of a major change about to happen. We would like for you to read it thoroughly and also give the new concept a chance before complaining that it is different. If you really open your mind you will see that this change is absolutely wonderful and will take this game to a level above other games like this one.

We are about to implement a major change to the ranking system.

Let me start by saying that our goal in creating a new EverWars (will call it EW2 for simplicity) type of game was to eliminate all of the flaws and shortcomings in the original game (EW1). For the most part, this has worked out very well. In fact, it has worked out much better than I ever expected or even hoped it would.

During the beta testing process, one thing has been a painful reminder of one of the major flaws not only in EW1 but just about every EW1 type of game ever created. That flaw is in the ranking system. Ignoring the fact that the item database has yet to be adjusted since beta began, the rankings have still turned into a race. In a race, the strategy is simple .. start fast, get a lead and get conservative.

I cannot stand that. Not to mention, EW2 will not have monthly resets. Instead, it will use a 30-day revolving battle system. Basically, this means that every day, the previous 31st day's battle logs and all wins/loses/etc. gained on that day will be deleted. So, after 30-60 days, you will find that the leaders have hit a virtual wall and many other players will catch them and at that point, the top of the rankings will be saturated with a large number of players all tied for the lead. The only way to lose the lead would be to miss one or more battle credits or to quit the game.

Of course, I could also simply reset the battle logs completely each month and leave all characters, items, skills, etc. However, then we would be back to the "race is on" situation.

Another concern is that with the current rankings system, the battles are for the most part one-way. Meaning, when you beat someone, it has no effect (positive or negative) on the player you beat. As far as they are concerned, the battle never happened. This makes the game less of a PVP game and more like a PVE game where all other players are turned into NPC's (non-playable characters) for you to battle. One of the things in EW1 that I loved was the ability to taunt players into attacking you because you could actually benefit from being attacked and winning the battle.

Therefore, we have decided to make a major concept change in the rankings. The new concept is a great idea if i do say so myself but I also understand change is often feared and at times misunderstood. Many of you have commented on how much fun EW2 is to play .. well, IMO, the new ranking system makes the game even more fun.


The New Ranking System


The new ranking system will be what is currently referred to as the PVP Ranking system albeit with a few adjustments. For those of you not familiar with the PVP Ranking system, this is an overview of how it works.

NOTE: In the following area, I am using the word "trophy" but it is only a word chosen to make the example easier to follow.

First, each battle combination of players is worth one trophy. So, for example, Zeras attacks Gil and wins .. Zeras wins the Zeras-vs-Gil trophy. Zeras's overall trophy record is 1-0 while Gil's is 0-1. Later, Gil sees that he lost a Trophy to Zeras so he attacks Zeras and Gil wins this time. Now, Gil has the Zeras-vs-Gil trophy so Zeras's record becomes 0-1 while Gil's becomes 1-0.

Now, before you start asking why didn't both records become 1-1, remember what I said .. EACH battle combination of players is worth ONE trophy. So, basically, whoever wins a battle between two players last, owns the rights to the trophy .. that one single trophy.

Since we are eliminating the experience-based race-for-your-life ranking system, we need a way to rank players. Of course, the first logical way would simply be to rank the players based on the total trophies you possess. However, this would create a race and conservative fighting situation all over again. For example, let's say I beat 10 players and go 10-0. Now, three of them get stronger and beat me so they get their trophies back dropping me to 7-3. Now, what would you do? Try to get those trophies back from those players who are much stronger now or go after lowbies who are easy targets? Each option will provide one trophy per win. You take the path of least resistance of course and farm the lowbies/newbies.


So, I came up with a very creative idea. The new rankings will be based on Status (PVP) Points. The formula for status points is:




For positive (winning) records:status_points = trophies_won + (trophies_won - trophies_lost)

For negative (losing) records:status_points = trophies_won



If your record is 20-13, your status points would be calculated like this:

status_points = 20 + (20 - 13) = 20 + 7 = 27

Here is the fun part. Let's say Zeras and Gil are both 20-13 .. Zeras then attacks Gil and wins. Zeras's record goes to 21-13 with a status point total of 29. Gil's record goes to 20-14 with a status point total of 26. That one win yielded a 3 point net gain for Zeras over Gil. Now, Gil sees that he lost to Zeras and wants his trophy back. He attacks Zeras and wins. Now, Zeras's record goes to 20-14 with 26 status points while Gil goes to 21-13 with 29 status points.

Now, you may be wondering .. why do this? It sounds complicated? It is not really. I explained it in a lot more detail with a lot more examples so everyone would understand it more quickly. The basic information is this:

Fight a new player and win, you gain 2 status points (only 1 if you have a losing record)
Fight a new player and lose, you lose 1 status point (none if you have a losing record)
Fight a previous player you lost to and win, you gain 3 status points (only 1 if you have a losing record)The bottom line: The reason for this is that it forces players to win back battles (trophies) they lost rather than farm lowbie players.

For example, let's say you just joined EverWars today and started playing. Well, what are you going to do? Most likely attack the players at the bottom of the rankings hoping to get lucky until you win some items or gold to buy items. Let's say you beat 15 players today. Those 15 players now have incentive to not only battle you again, but also beat you to gain a net of up to 3 points per battle since you previously beat them.

So, when you go to bed, you may be in first place on the rankings. When you wake up, you very well may have dropped off the first page of rankings if there are enough players playing.

This new concept creates a much more dynamically changing ranking system and makes battles with specific players mean a lot more. It also allows players to organise and go after the leaders to cause them to lose status points which lowers their ranking. It's not just about catching the leaders, it is also about causing the leaders to drop back down toward you as well.

This will put the game's real focus on player-vs-player and will make player rankings mean a lot more to you and every other player.

We need your comments on this. While this change is already being implemented, we really want to hear your complaints, compliments, suggestions, concerns, etc.

-Zeras

Aeoin
03-22-2007, 03:33 AM
This sounds like an awesome way to solve at least one of the problems with EW1's system. Anyone recall the FBG thing? haha. The fact that he was always at the top of the rankings made everyone quite resentful of him, especially when he lorded it about in Chat, teehee. This system is simply beautiful in comparison. :p

I'll leave better comments tomorrow, however. Right now, I'm severely lacking in sleep.

Just wanted to say great stuff, you guys. :D

Exultant
03-22-2007, 05:23 AM
I seriously like what you told us. Especially the 31 day delete battle log because everyone has a chance to be on top :)
I really admire the trophy persquasion method.

Very intellectual Z!:D

One thing i really would like to be implemented since this new game play will occur; could you possibly make much more new and expensive weapons so that the game will never end? I'd really love that! Such as making a weapon 1 million gold so it takes like 2 years to get :) I really don't like resets so the weapon idea would suit me since items won't be resetted :) , i don't know about you guys.

Zeras
03-22-2007, 08:36 AM
I seriously like what you told us. Especially the 31 day delete battle log because everyone has a chance to be on top :)
I really admire the trophy persquasion method.

Very intellectual Z!:D

One thing i really would like to be implemented since this new game play will occur; could you possibly make much more new and expensive weapons so that the game will never end? I'd really love that! Such as making a weapon 1 million gold so it takes like 2 years to get :) I really don't like resets so the weapon idea would suit me since items won't be resetted :) , i don't know about you guys.
Assuming the game becomes quite popular, we plan to release expansions to the game which can possibly add features, new races, items, etc.

This game is built on a much better game engine than the old game and expanding the game will be a lot easier as well.

-Zeras

Jerzol
03-23-2007, 03:29 PM
I will post some thoughts about the new ranking system.

First of all I think that this new ranking system is quite interesting. :)
Of course I would like to see it working with a huge number of players, like it will be in the future.
As for the "racing" in EW1 I must say I liked it.
By the way I liked it even more in our (Polish) EW clone that was quite similar to EW (we missed that game and made our own), where for about two years there were regular monthly resets. So it was real tournament system. Nevermind...

What I need in this ranking system is the information for every player in the ranking - what is my score against him. So that I would know if I have to attack THIS player to raise my ranking, or that attacking him I useless because I won our last battle.

Will you keep the "regular" ranking as well, or there will be only PvP ranking?

Now we can see in the ranking only numbers of wins and losses of battles that we started. Do you have a plan to reveal in the ranking (or somewhere else) the number of wins and losses of defensive battles? If that's not an information for everybody who sees the ranking, it shall be known of every player how many times we won and lost defensive battles.

What do you think about such an idea:
It's good for player's morale to see with his name honours he gained in the past. So there could be some sort of "honours" (and records) in the game.
For example: when we click on a player info, we could see that he is the player that for 5 days in a row was the first in the ranking, and nobody else was first for such a long time. Or we could see the information with every player what was his best position in the ranking and for how long.

Every week there could be a summary and on the base of actual position in the ranking and numbers of wins etc. On base of this summary a player of the week (and top 5 or 10 players of the week) would be chosen.

Zeras
03-23-2007, 03:37 PM
What I need in this ranking system is the information for every player in the ranking - what is my score against him. So that I would know if I have to attack THIS player to raise my ranking, or that attacking him I useless because I won our last battle.
There will be multiple ways to tell who owns the status point (trophy) between you and other players.

Will you keep the "regular" ranking as well, or there will be only PvP ranking?
No, it has already been removed. I may add an option to view rankings sorted by total battles won but no promises on that. The exp system has been removed already.

Now we can see in the ranking only numbers of wins and losses of battles that we started. Do you have a plan to reveal in the ranking (or somewhere else) the number of wins and losses of defensive battles? If that's not an information for everybody who sees the ranking, it shall be known of every player how many times we won and lost defensive battles.
I am not sure if whether you attacked or defended the battle will be publicly available to everyone but it will be available for your own battles so you can see.

What do you think about such an idea:
It's good for player's morale to see with his name honours he gained in the past. So there could be some sort of "honours" (and records) in the game.
For example: when we click on a player info, we could see that he is the player that for 5 days in a row was the first in the ranking, and nobody else was first for such a long time. Or we could see the information with every player what was his best position in the ranking and for how long.

Every week there could be a summary and on the base of actual position in the ranking and numbers of wins etc. On base of this summary a player of the week (and top 5 or 10 players of the week) would be chosen.
I have general plans for something similar to this but it may not be in by the official launch. It is definitely on my list of potential ideas though.

Btw, what was your game called? Is it still online?

Jerzol
03-23-2007, 04:11 PM
Btw, what was your game called? Is it still online?

It was called Blehna.
I stopped playing this game about a year ago, but it is still online (but much less popular than before). A game is of course in Polish.
It was made by Pirveli, a player of Everwars. In fact all the top Polish players of Everwars (Draakhan, Everlast, Rasheed, Saymon Vega, Annihilator) played it for a long time. The game has no graphics at all. It's very simple but quite playable. Especially because of the forum (I think it is offline now) with fantastic taunting threads.
We also had a big "Hall of Fame" forums where the records were noted for every month. Like the strongest elf or strongest goblin (a one who hit for the most damage of all players) or the quickest player (who won a battle in the shortest number of rounds). And there were such stats for every tournament.
There were also clans.
Pirveli had plans to develop the game but never had time to do it, so the game seemed always to be a beta.

I must say that although Everwars started almost 4 years ago and most of players abandoned it about 3 years ago, I still have contact with mentioned above group of Polish players.

If you want to see it, there is the link: blehna.pl

Exultant
03-23-2007, 05:50 PM
It was called Blehna.
I stopped playing this game about a year ago, but it is still online (but much less popular than before). A game is of course in Polish.
It was made by Pirveli, a player of Everwars. In fact all the top Polish players of Everwars (Draakhan, Everlast, Rasheed, Saymon Vega, Annihilator) played it for a long time. The game has no graphics at all. It's very simple but quite playable. Especially because of the forum (I think it is offline now) with fantastic taunting threads.
We also had a big "Hall of Fame" forums where the records were noted for every month. Like the strongest elf or strongest goblin (a one who hit for the most damage of all players) or the quickest player (who won a battle in the shortest number of rounds). And there were such stats for every tournament.
There were also clans.
Pirveli had plans to develop the game but never had time to do it, so the game seemed always to be a beta.

I must say that although Everwars started almost 4 years ago and most of players abandoned it about 3 years ago, I still have contact with mentioned above group of Polish players.

If you want to see it, there is the link: blehna.pl
I like the hall of fame idea. Also, i would like it when the winner of the 30 day tournament gets 1 title. If he wins another, he/she receives 2 titles.

Eve
03-23-2007, 07:22 PM
I like the hall of fame idea. Also, i would like it when the winner of the 30 day tournament gets 1 title. If he wins another, he/she receives 2 titles.

The only thing is, that there aren't tournaments like that in the new concept. It's on a thirty day cycle that changes every day, and I can't explain this very well so forgive me, but basically the stats will be based on the thirty previous days of gameplay. Anything 31 days old is dropped off. So every day, the statistics affected by this only include the previous 30 days of information. Of course, the new ranking system affects this differently than most of us are used to, also. There's just no possible way to stay at the top of the charts for any length of time, but that's perfect because literally anyone has a chance to see themselves at the top for a moment :) This is great for players that will come into the game months down the road who would have had no chance in the original everwars concept. So, there's not really a tournament so-to-speak, and there will never be resets, monthly or otherwise.
I will say, however, that I too like the title idea, some sort of honor to go into your profile with your achievements would definitely be fantastic. I just don't know that the Hall of Fame idea would work with this new game since each day, it's removing the 31st previous days' information. Some achievements could include how long a person has played the game, maybe the first person in the game to get an ultra-rare item, maybe even an award based on how many recruits have joined under you. Just my thoughts :)

Zeras
03-23-2007, 07:55 PM
The only thing is, that there aren't tournaments like that in the new concept. It's on a thirty day cycle that changes every day, and I can't explain this very well so forgive me, but basically the stats will be based on the thirty previous days of gameplay. Anything 31 days old is dropped off. So every day, the statistics affected by this only include the previous 30 days of information. Of course, the new ranking system affects this differently than most of us are used to, also. There's just no possible way to stay at the top of the charts for any length of time, but that's perfect because literally anyone has a chance to see themselves at the top for a moment :) This is great for players that will come into the game months down the road who would have had no chance in the original everwars concept. So, there's not really a tournament so-to-speak, and there will never be resets, monthly or otherwise.
I will say, however, that I too like the title idea, some sort of honor to go into your profile with your achievements would definitely be fantastic. I just don't know that the Hall of Fame idea would work with this new game since each day, it's removing the 31st previous days' information. Some achievements could include how long a person has played the game, maybe the first person in the game to get an ultra-rare item, maybe even an award based on how many recruits have joined under you. Just my thoughts :)
Actually, I already planned a title system .. thought I mentioned that to you ..

Also, there will be a monthly tournament system still using the new concept. I will give out more details on this later but there will be a "winner" or "winners" each month.

Exultant
03-23-2007, 08:15 PM
Actually, I already planned a title system .. thought I mentioned that to you ..

Also, there will be a monthly tournament system still using the new concept. I will give out more details on this later but there will be a "winner" or "winners" each month.

:D :) ;) really looking forward to the new idea.

Eve
03-23-2007, 10:10 PM
Actually, I already planned a title system .. thought I mentioned that to you ..

Yes but I didn't know whether or not I had "permission" to divulge that yet. I was being elusive.

Immelmann
03-24-2007, 11:15 AM
Interesting concept. I'd like to try it before I give my comments, though.